Previous Entry | Next Entry

eee! eee!

  • Mar. 26th, 2003 at 10:59 PM
indie jen
Oh for fuckin' squee.


I miss episodes of Angel like this. I mean, welcome home, Gunn! You were clearly on your way back, but with this episode, I declare you our boy again.

While I disagree with the amount of time it took to break up the Bermuda Triangle, I think the purpose of this episode was to reintroduce Gunn in a way that made the audience care about him and reground where he fits as a character and a member of the group.

It also rather emphasized the emotional immaturity of Fred, something that I think that was completely glossed over in the writers' complete hatred or indifference to Fred in S3. Let's consider this. Fred was a supergenius child, if AA interviews and the relative youth of the character mean anything (Fred at the very least should be 29 by now. I would guess that she's about 25), Fred was very very young in college and her first year of graduate school. I'm a young graduate student at 24. If Fred was 19 or 20 and a first year physics grad, she was an emotional retard. She didn't know anything but her portals. Maybe she was crushing on her first man. From her reaction to Willow, I think it's clear that before Fred went to Pylea, she didn't have time to examine her sexuality. And then she went to a hell dimension and went mad for five years. She had to focus on survival.

Then she came back and found herself in the center of a very flattering love triangle. No matter how either Wesley or Gunn acted (like jackasses), I have to admit that you'd have to be blind or asexual not to be flattered and aroused by having two smoking hot men wanting you. And when Fred chooses Gunn...it's a question of two things. On the one hand, Fred has the canniest, most sophisticated survival instincts of anyone on Angel, and I am pretty sure her rejection of Wes is about realizing that he's not safe, he is dark. Meanwhile, Gunn is a little more open, he likes taking her for pancakes, they probably both remember being 12 or 13 and hating Vanilla Ice and watching Wonder Years. And Gunn is hotter than a hot thing. And he likes her. And he buys her flowers. In short, it's easy to see why Fred thinks she's totally in love with Gunn, and can we really blame Gunn for enjoying the bright sunny "first love" of Fred? She really is a remarkable woman for surviving Pylea, she's amazingly bright, and she's quick to adapt to the hell of AI.

Now unfortunately for Gunn, Fred is also extremely manipulative, and extremely shallow when it comes to love. I'm not blaming her for this. Fred is emotionally about sixteen when it comes to love, due to obvious factors. Who blames a sixteen year old girl for being bad with love? Add in her tendency to be a moral binarist, and Gunn/Fred was doomed, especially when you add in Fred's ongoing fascination with Wesley which she continues to lie about. But her comment in "Release" about wanting it to be simple is very telling, as is her three week bounce between possible partners. One week she wants Gunn, the next week she's got an overt girlcrush on Willow, and this week she's back to crushing on Wes? I think it's fair to say that Fred hasn't ever been in love and that she doesn't understand.

And that brings us to Wesley and Lilah. Fred thinks everyone's opinion on Lilah should be easy: Lilah's evil. Wesley was only fucking her because Wesley was very very hurt and emotionally sick because of what happened to Connor and because they abandoned him. Probably Fred is just naive enough to think Lilah put some sort of evil woman sex whammy on Wes and it's not really his fault that he stayed with the sketchy ho. And that when Wesley realized the evil woman was using him, he dumped her like a good boy, and hated her for using him.

It obviously blows Fred's mind that this wasn't the case, and that just maybe, Wesley loved Lilah. And clearly, Wesley had a long drive to Stockton to consider exactly how he felt about Lilah. And I'm not quite sure what he's concluded. My romantic side says, "she was the One!" but I would guess it's more along the lines of what I've said in my fic/rants about what Lilah did for Wesley. She taught him a great deal about using all that internal power of his to get the job done and not feeling guilty for it. And Wesley was an apt pupil; he did very badly by Lilah and didn't say sorry...because she understood/would have understood the job had to be done. I think between Lilah and Faith, Wesley has finally accepted his ruthless side as a necessary part of himself, and I'm not sure if Willow helped him understand that he's not necessarily the Prince of Darkness and that he has a job to do at Angel Investigations. The last part, I know he believes.

So back to Gunn. squee. I think the message is, Gunn is his own man, too. And rather than Wesley finding his own path, it's maybe Gunn who needs to back away from the psychodrama that is Angel Investigations. I think it's bad for him, and I don't think AI appreciates Gunn enough, not because they don't realize Gunn is smart, but because Gunn's smarts are a skill duplicated by the others and that maybe he doesn't have a place there as part of the family. Also, I don't think Gunn thrives in the turgid, soap-opera world that Angel creates. And this doesn't make Gunn shallow. It makes Gunn not melancholic. And frankly, he'll be better off if he's in environments more like Gwen's. Gunn would be a pretty swank secret agent, a la Alias, and I hope Greenwalt is speaking true and the new format of AI allows for more of that, more of Gunn shining and behaving like this and having fun macking with his girl Gwen.

I have more, but maybe tomorrow. I think my brain's exploded.

Comments

[info]princesstwilite wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:01 pm (UTC)
I love you so much right now.
[info]jennyo wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:08 pm (UTC)
Well, it explains so much about Fred to think of her this way. I mean, figuring out sexuality is hard enough, but to be a 21/22 year old graduate student genius who ends up a slave in an alternate dimension after having come from Texas (no offense to Texas; just, did some time in the South and thinking it's not going to speed up any big Gay/Bi epiphanies or reinforce any big Straight epiphanies)? You're going to come home and not be prepared for the kind of relationship both Wes and Gunn are offering. Case closed. And this explanation covers up a lot of the bad writing of S3 and allows for Fred's next SO to be anyone (Willow, Willow, Willow, dammit!).

just sayin.
[info]princesstwilite wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:15 pm (UTC)
Yeah, there was this recent case in Texas (still going on?) where two men were literally DRAGGED out of their house and arrested for sodomy. They're fighting it, of course. The neighbor reported them for theft, or something of that sort... yuh-huh.

Anyway, Fred is definitely at least bisexual. Sure, I've got this theory that we all are, but her character is obviously drawn to both. Look at the Cordy/Fred all over the place! At the same time Angel/Fred was at it's peak, no less.

And when it comes to Willow/Fred - honey, I've got you peaked for the never-gonna-happen.

Kate. 'Nuff said.
[info]boniblithe wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 11:34 am (UTC)
Actually that incident in Texas took place in 1986 - the Supreme Court initially refused to overturn the Texas law that makes homosexual sex in private homes illegal - the case only just came up before the Supreme Court again this past week. Was listening to it on the news yesterday :) Sounds like it has a much better chance of getting overturned this time around, but still not guaranteed.
[info]cicelian wrote:
Apr. 7th, 2003 12:20 pm (UTC)
No, those are two separate cases. The one that's being discussed by the Supreme Court took place in 1998. It's explained pretty well in this article.
[info]wyoluvr wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:08 pm (UTC)
i love the way you meta.

i think you're right about Fred. i still have a soft spot for her BECAUSE she's emotionally immature and kind of sweet AND the writers royally screwed the character to hell.

ah, the goodness. turgid supernatural soap opera, indeed.
[info]jennyo wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:26 pm (UTC)
Well, one truth about Cordelia and Fred and their poor romantic choices is that both of them are very, very young. And involved in an overwhelming world with overwhelming men. Hell, we all know that Angel, Wes, and Gunn are therapy-making if our meta is anything to go by, but we even know how much they suck and we still drool on them. So how can I blame two women who are/should be about emotionally twenty for falling for Big Damn Heroes like Angel or Wes or Gunn? It annoys us, but it also is extremely comprehensible, you know?

Now, I'm waiting for Fred to meet someone who she can really fall in love with. And I would still prefer it not be Wesley, because that's not what either of them need.
[info]backfromspace wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:27 pm (UTC)
I'd never thought of Fred like that, but now that you've pointed it out I think I see your point. It's also compelling because you're right about her survival mechanism; she never seems to get hurt on the deep emotional level that, say, Wesley is dealing with, because her choices are always for the one who wouldn't hurt her. Gunn's a big softie. I'd also like to point out that Gwen, as a character who is suddenly capable of being touched by someone who isn't dead and a virgin, is in real danger of filling Fred's place with her own first love mushy glee.

I'm convinced Wesley doesn't want a conventional relationship after what he got from Lilah. They were fucked up and they never stopped hurting each other, but they fit together. I'm beginning to think they killed her off because she'd just keep coming back for him.
[info]jennyo wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:40 pm (UTC)
I'd also like to point out that Gwen, as a character who is suddenly capable of being touched by someone who isn't dead and a virgin, is in real danger of filling Fred's place with her own first love mushy glee.

I think that's possible, but I think that Gwen's always been portrayed as fairly wary and aware of sexuality, even as a virgin. I think she's cynical in a way that's very not-Fred, and that's how they'll move around the first love mushy glee. Because if Gwen's in love with Gunn, that's FAST. I think it's far more likely that she's fond of him and she has him pegged as a good first lay for a cynical girl like her...a big guy who cares and who knows what's up, who won't necessarily cramp her style if it doesn't work out.

I'm convinced Wesley doesn't want a conventional relationship after what he got from Lilah. They were fucked up and they never stopped hurting each other, but they fit together. I'm beginning to think they killed her off because she'd just keep coming back for him.

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I do think it's going to be hard for Fred to compare to the veritable kinky playground that was Lilah, and what will probably sabotage that relationship is that Fred is never going to be able to have sex with Wesley without thinking, "Was she better than me?" and that's a question that's going to long-term screw Wes/Fred. Until Fred grows up a little about love, she's not going to be able to provide the emotional connection that I think could really be the "thing" between Wes and Fred. And let's be honest, if Fred gets icked out like a 15 year old Valley Girl over Cordy and Connor, if Fred EVER heard about Lilah and Wesley's little glasses-and-braids thing, she'd be in Arizona before her skin stopped crawling.

On the other hand, Wesley's been left bruised, broken, and drained by these gorgeous dark women...Lilah and Faith and even Cordelia and Virginia are all of that archetype. Maybe he needs some time with a woman who won't cut up his heart with broken glass. But I dunno. I suspect you're right, and Wes just isn't going to work with Fred unless Fred magically discovers the joys of kink via Wes.

(And heh. They got rid of Lilah because they didn't need another Spike. I'm telling you. *g*)
[info]backfromspace wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 12:02 am (UTC)
I think that's possible, but I think that Gwen's always been portrayed as fairly wary and aware of sexuality, even as a virgin. I think she's cynical in a way that's very not-Fred, and that's how they'll move around the first love mushy glee. Because if Gwen's in love with Gunn, that's FAST.

I don't think she is, yet, but [TMPI] the first time I fell in what-I-thought-was-love it was because it was convenient, and I convinced myself of it pretty damn fast.[/TMPI] I think Gwen's going to take her time with it, but I'm still thinking the lure of fresh (ahem) love is what's going to get Gunn in the end. They might not be in love yet, but they're definitely attracted and I can see it happening over time.

About the cynicism, I think that's what's going to make it interesting; she's not Fred. She's much older emotionally than Fred is, and much, much worse with the survival thing. She only seems like Fred on the surface, with her inexperience. I think Gwen and Gunn could really have something going, eventually, but it's going to take time if they choose to develop it.

I think it's far more likely that she's fond of him and she has him pegged as a good first lay for a cynical girl like her...a big guy who cares and who knows what's up, who won't necessarily cramp her style if it doesn't work out.

The thing is, though, that he's also the kind of guy who wouldn't abandon anyone in a hurry. Even after she betrayed him with the setup thing he helped her out anyway because he knew she couldn't do it alone. Gwen might be big on the taking chances with her life, but I think she's very wary about who she lets in.

I'm biased, of course, because I find myself suddenly identifying with her a lot more than any other character. I always liked Rogue from the X-Men best, too. Got a thing for desperately lonely characters, because I've been there.

Re: Wes, I think think the only way to love him is to hurt him. He's the kind of guy who could never be satisfied with a healthy relationship. He almost seems to exist for the stolen moments of calm in long barrages of insanity - even in his normal life. His love life and his professional life are very similar in that respect, because he's working constantly to prevent catastrophe and apocalypse. Basically I think he's a warrior deep down, and he just can't quite accept anything he doesn't have to fight for, every day.
[info]scrollgirl wrote:
Apr. 1st, 2003 10:13 pm (UTC)
Nuh-uh.
(And heh. They got rid of Lilah because they didn't need another Spike. I'm telling you. *g*)

I refuse to believe Lilah could ever be as Lilah-ruled as Spike the WunderVamp. (Did that make sense?) Therefore will remain disgruntled, though not bitter, about Lilah's death. Of course, fics like "Til Break of Day" make things all warm and happy in my world :)

~ Scroll
[info]kita0610 wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2003 11:39 pm (UTC)
Oh yea baby.

Grown up time. Woot!
[info]derry667 wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 01:04 am (UTC)
You and I have disagreed on a few things lately but I gotta say that this is the best explanation of what's up with Fred that I've read anywhere.

Yep, she's a sixteen-year-old romanc-o-holic who thinks love ought to be "hearts & flowers" and the coolest boy inschool taking her to the prom. And she's also an emotional Machiavelli - who did really get off a bit on two guys fighting over her (no matter how much she tried to play the sweet and innocent card).

And yep, she doesn't get how Wes could actually feel for Lilah. Lilah = Evil. Wes= A bit naughty but still basically good. And besides he love ME! :-)

And I so want to see the expression on his face when he talks about Lilah! (Only got the wildfeed summary to go on - damn them for shutting down the download sites!)

But Gunn looks like he's out of the wilderness! I'm really looking forward to actually liking Gunn again.
[info]vaznetti wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 05:37 am (UTC)
You're so right about Fred.

On the scene between Wes and Fred... of course I was sitting in my chair hoping for a great declaration on Wesley's part, but (in light of your comments on Fred) it was kind of him to let her down lightly, the way he did. Fred so obviously doesn't understand what happened between Wesleh and Lilah, and all Wesley did was remind her of that.
[info]thebratqueen wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 05:42 am (UTC)
Putting this in white so those who aren't spoiler whores like us don't read something they don't want to:

[What's your take on the Gina Torres interview? If we've got a death coming and, god HELP us, it's not Charisma, who are you putting your money on for the chopping block? I'm hoping for something serious, like Gunn, Fred or Lorne (notice how I will not even consider Wes as an option) but at the moment I'm fretting that for all my theories about Gwen joining the cast in actuality all this is is a way to build her up so we'll give a shit when she dies. OTOH Angel's been pretty good about actually pulling no punches so... who knows? C'mon. You're our resident deathwatch psychic. Who's it gonna be?]
[info]piedmargaret wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 05:46 am (UTC)
This is a wonderful Fred analysis, and I have memory'd it for the next time (it won't be long) that I'm staring at the child (as that's what she is) and thinking WTF is up with this girl?

Thank you.

I'm wondering if this was one of the reasons I had such a problem with Wes/Fred. Because she is just a little girl, and Wes, at least after his makeover and Lilah, is a mature man, and it really just seems sick and icky. She even dresses like a little girl a great deal of the time.
[info]spicedrum wrote:
Mar. 27th, 2003 11:29 am (UTC)
Good analysis, but Fred still needs. to. go.

Unless Amy Acker can have someone teach her how not to belong to the Jackee/Sister Sister Twins school of acting. So annoying.

Latest Month

July 2009
S M T W T F S
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 
Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Kyle Flood